The black Honeymooners!

[CrisItalia]

Whats the deal with this movie. First of the all THE HONEYMOONERS should never be remade .... but to make the Honeymooners with black actors is just a travesty. The reason why the Honeymooners was so good was because of the casting. Jackie Gleason, Art Carney, Audrey Meadows and Joyce Randolph ... you dont replace that with CEDRIC THE ENTERTAINER, MIKE EPPS and fracking BRANDY! A travesty man. A fracking travesty.

[Dave McAwesome]

Okay, first of all, no SHOUTING!!! I changed your "capslock" style headline accordingly

Second, and I'm quoting a great anonymous author here: Arguing about politics, race, religion, etc. on the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics, no matter who wins, you're still retarded.

Now that that's all straightened away, let's get to it: Your argument is, structurally speaking, a mess. I don't understand...why do you specify "black actors"? The trailer for the movie is the most unfunny piece of crap I have ever seen. No actor, white, black or purple could make it funny.

Now, you make the claim "the HM was so good because of the casting." I'll agree with that. But Jackie Gleason wasn't funny cuz he's white. He's funny because he's a good actor. So I don't understand how all your separate claims fit together into a coherent argument...nor do I get what your argument is...

Cris...you're slipping...Next thing you know, you'll be snapping up Billy Joel albums off Amazon "Billy Joel really speaks to me," you'll say.

[CrisItalia]

My arguement is this ... and I'm not being racist. People identify Ralph Cramden as a big fat WHITE bus driver. When people think honeymooners they think Jackie Gleason ... why even tarnish it by fooling people into thinking this might be a remake of a classic when what it is, is just an old sitcom turned into a movie, "but this is different cuz the actors are black." This is more hip, this is edger. Its starting to become a trend.

Examples:

Chris Rock in "Down to Earth" a remake of "Heaven Can Wait"

Bernie Mac in "Guess Who" a remake of "Guess who's coming to Dinner"

Will Smith in a remake of "Wild Wild West"

And there are more. Granted the examples I've provided are not the status of the Honeymooners but it does make you wonder why it is cast differently this time around. The script and the storyline is based on four white people as neighbors in a poor Brooklyn neighborhood.

There are other examples like you saw for yourself:

Ving Rhames as the Black CoJack

In the movie "Daredevil" Kingpin is black when historically MARVEL COMICS has always made Kingpin as a white gangster.

There were rumors that Captain America was going to be made using a black actor when in comic books he's always been white.

I guess what I'm saying is this .... these are characters and movies or TV shows that have already existed. People already have it in their mind this is what the Honeymooners are or this is who Kingpin is ... it just seems like the black honeymooners is something that is forced. Something that says we're trying to get your attention by bringing race into it. Just so it stirs up some talk. That's all I'm saying. It's not me being racist or anything like that. It's just an observation thats all.

And the real bottom line is: You don't remake timeless classics. EVER! That should be like a Hollywood rule.

[Dave McAwesome]

There are two reasons for this trend:
1. Hollywood, in the last five years or so, has been cranking out a lot of "remakes" and "re-envisionings" etc. of old intellectual properties (IPs). They're looking for a built-in audience. So you take something like the Scooby Doo IP, grab a few actors, toss it on the screen and people go: "oh, yeah, I remember Scooby Doo, I'll check that out."

2. The Revision Stage. A genre goes through various stages: you first have the genre defining works which set the rules for future comers (in westerns, for example, you think of stuff like the old "My Darling Clementine" etc. where the rules are: Good guys, bad guys, showdown at the end). Then there are parodies which play up the rules (Blazing Saddles). Revisions (I think 'revision' is the term...but somehow it doesn't sound right) completely turn the genre on its head by questioning the rules in the first place (Unforgiven).

You mention Marvel Comics: They have a history of dusting off a character every now and then and putting a revisionist spin in an attempt to reexamine what the character is all about. So taking The Honeymooners and casting an all African-American cast is sort of an attempt in that direction. It's going to fail miserably, as we both know, because it's woefully unfunny.

Let's recast:
Granted, they needed a better script. But a better cast? Bernie Mac as Ralph. On his show he's almost a modern Ralph (except more successful, job-wise). Instead of constant money-schemes, he schemes to make a man out of that kid with the glasses, Jordan.
Dave Chapelle as a pot-smoking Norton. There's not going to be another Art Carney, so you need another take on it. I could even see Martin Lawrence doing something funny with this.
Trixie? should be an unknown actor.
Alice? This is one of the tougher roles to cast. You need a straightman...er, woman. Maybe an on-the-cusp comedian?

[CrisItalia]

Next thing you know they'll remake the Brady Bunch ... oh yeah I forgot they did that ... TWICE.

[CrisItalia]

I guess what really bugs me too is just imagine the Jeffersons or Goodtimes were remade with all white actors. The black community would go nuts over that. YOU KNOW THAT BE THE TRUTH MAN!

And if that did that happen how horrible would it be. I mean it just wouldn't happen any way. You'll never see the white version of What's Happening and that was just another point I wanted to make how this is socially acceptable if its remade with black actors, but it wouldn't be if it was vice versa.

That's the sad part.

[Dave McAwesome]

That's a tough price to pay for hundreds of years of slavery.

"You slave away on our cotton plantations, but in return, we'll never remake The Jeffersons. Deal?"

Sounds fair.

[CrisItalia]

Right so it all goes back to slavery. I knew this was where it was going to go. I'm not an idiot. I know that happened. I know that was a horrible time in this country's history, but for christ's sakes what the hell does this have to do with salvery?

Breaking news: I was never a slave owner. Nor were my ancestors. So why am I being lumped in with everyone else. Simple statement. The black community would be pissed if Sanford and Son, Good Times or The Jeffersons were remade with white actors. And it would be justified.

Isn't that a double standard?

[Dave McAwesome]

1. ANYbody should be peeved when ANYthing gets remade for no reason. I don't want to see the Honeymooners get remade AND I don't want to see Sanford and Son get remade. To me, they each had their place in time and I can't figure out what good it would do to rework them into the present.

2. The "but I wasn't a slave owner" argument doesn't work. We live in a society. Our society owned slaves. It also practiced widespread descrimination. These acts had real and devastating consequences. If we believe our society to be just, we have an obligation to rectify that. (Not that it matters, what with the poor and middle class being marginalized no matter what ethnic group they belong to. We're all getting the shaft.)

3. I absolutely despise this "us versus them" attitude. Biologically, the difference between "us" and "them" is so insignificant as to be uninteresting outside a biology lab. Guess where you were decended from a couple of hundred thousand years ago? "Them." Get over it.

(I thought my slavery line last post was funny. Didn't mean it to backfire and turn into a political fusilade. I don't have a "Politics and Religion" section on this forum for a reason.)